HInt Option telling answer

Hi Marcy,

When a student uses the "Get a Hint" button, they should be able to see the first step in the solution to the problem. For problems with only one step, it's possible that the only hint may be the final solution. Students can then continue to click "Get a Hint" to see subsequent steps of the solution, and eventually the final answer.

However, it should also be noted that when a student uses the hint button, the question is immediately marked as incorrect. This is intended to prevent students from simply using the hint button to get all of the questions correct, and it also gives them additional practice by allowing them to try another similar problem on their own.

Hope this helps! Please let me know if you have any further questions!

I thought this whole time that your hint was just a hint and not giving them the answers.  I thought you only gave them the first step like in the SAT practices.  I just don't understand what y'all are doing here.  I had been giving them credit on their second tries on their practice assignments in both Geometry and Algebra 2, but today I just now discovered after being on here for 2 solid years that you give them the answer and they type the correct answer into the answer box, and you give them confetti for doing it.  Unbelievable!  Remove the confetti then if they do see the answer!  Thanks Khan Academy for making my life harder now.  Obviously, you need to look up the definition of the word "HINT".  FIX THIS NOW PLEASE!!!!!

Hi Allegra,

When you say "credit on their second tries", do you mean their second attempt at the question or their second attempt at the assignment?

Once the students use a hint the question is automatically marked as incorrect, so they won't be given credit on Khan Academy for the question if they use the answer provided at the end of the hints. Additionally, each attempt at the assignment shows different questions (if you've enabled this option when creating the assignment), so they won't be able to use the answers from previous problems on their second attempt. Are they finding another way to do this?

The goal of the hints is to help students who are struggling or who may not fully understand a problem. Students are encouraged to use the related videos first, and then use the hints as the last option. We understand this may not work in all situations, but the hints are an incredibly helpful resource for mastery learning and self-paced learners.

Another option that y'all need to do is once they see the answer, you need to block or grey out the text/answer box to prevent them from trying again on the same problem.  Basically, make them click onto the next problem to prevent them from cheating.  Thanks!

When you say "credit on their second tries", do you mean their second attempt at the question or their second attempt at the assignment?  I meant their second attempt at the question on the practice problems.  I took it as y'all were giving them a second try at the problem, so if they got it right the second time, I had been giving them credit for doing that.  I had no idea they could see the answer and actually enter it into the answer box and get the confetti to show them that they were right.  I had been telling them that if they get 4 confetties out of 4 problems they really got a 100 for me.  But I see now I can no longer do that because they can see the answer and I had no idea.  I thought the "Hint" was just a hint when in actuality it is a "Show me (the answer)" instead.  Y'all need to be more clear and upfront.  Again, you need to get rid of the confetti too on the second try then if they can see the answer.  That's ridiculous.

Just checking back in.  I take it that your silence means that I'm right and hopefully you're working to fix this situation.  Again, you need to block or grey out the text/answer box to prevent them from trying again on the same problem.  Basically, make them click onto the next problem to prevent them from cheating and take down the confetti for second attempts.  "Yay!  You found and saw the answer and put it into the answer box!  Good for you!"  That's what you're telling them.

Hi Allegra,

I can understand your frustration.  However, I'm confused about why you were counting a question right if you knew that they got it wrong once.

The point to the hint function is to get one step, while marking the question wrong.  I've had students who tried to argue that they did every question without getting any wrong, and they were right; however, their first step was to ask for hints, so they were not mastering the material.  I explained to them that I needed to see the problem set done correctly, without hints, and they could retake it as many times as they wished to improve their scores.

The multi-step hints work best with Algebra 1 and later classes.  For elementary and middle school, sometimes there's only one hint.  However, there can be 10 steps or more once they're getting into higher levels of math.

FWIW, the program is set up to allow them to guess an answer repeatedly, or to use a hint proactively.  This allows a student who is stubborn and wants to improve to try to figure out the method without going back to the videos/articles.  

OK...I'm going to explain this again one more time, and that's it!  

Obviously, y'all don't understand where I'm coming from here.  I first started working in Khan Academy for the SAT practice for my junior students.  In the SAT practice for math, there is a hint where the answer is NEVER given.  It's a REAL hint with only one step.  So, I assumed that over on the practice problems in Geometry and Algebra 2 for Khan Academy were set up just like the SAT practices...that a hint was a hint and not showing every step including the answer, but I just figured out recently that wasn't the case.  I stood behind an Algebra 2 student the other day, watching him clicking on "hint" several times until the answer was exposed.  He was then allowed to continue, by the program, to type in the correct answer in the answer box and it gave him the confetti.  Way before I knew this was happening, there was a button on the "View Report" of the student's work that said "First Attempt", and if you click it, it changed it to "Last attempt".  Then the grey bars would turn green.  I was noticing that they were given a second try at the problem and my students were getting them correct on the second try.  I thought this whole time that the so-called hint they were looking at was just a hint, BUT I never knew they were seeing everything, including the answer!  I thought the hint would be "use this formula" for example and not give them the answer.  Also, the students were complaining that they would try it again, get the confetti, and at the end it would say that they received 0%.  After a while, I noticed that Khan Academy was only counting their first try as correct, not their second try at the problem.  So I was going to the view report page to see how they did on their last attempt, and gave them credit for getting it right the second time (again, this was before I knew they could actually see the answers).  Here in Texas, Geometry and Algebra 2 are no longer End of Course exams for the state.  My students don't have to memorize anything or get it right the first time.  I just want them to use Khan Academy as more practice, receive REAL hints, and watch videos.  I had no idea that the Geometry and the Algebra 2 "Hints" were giving them the answers!  Of course if I knew that ahead of time, then I would have told them that their score would be based on their first try only.  I'm just mad that my students knew something that I didn't.  Anyway, I didn't want them to get bogged down in the process.  We're all humans and make mistakes and accidently type things in the answer boxes that we didn't mean to.  So, I told them that if they fixed it on the second try that I would count it and move on.  AGAIN, THIS WAS ALL BEFORE I KNEW THAT THE HINT OPTION WAS EXPOSING THE STUDENTS THE ANSWERS!!!  I just want Khan Academy to look up the definition of the word "Hint" in the dictionary and give the students a REAL hint WITHOUT exposing the answer.  Otherwise, instead of the word "Hint", it should say "Show me" as in show me the answer and not give them the confetti for seeing it.  That is all.  So don't worry.  It's my fault for not taking the time to dig into Khan Academy pretending to be a student to see what they can see or not see.  I just don't have time for that.  I assumed (which I shouldn't have because I know that it means make an [edited by moderator for language] out of U and ME) to expect that the hint option was the same as it was on the SAT practices.  I can tell you that over there, they do NOT, and I repeat, SAT practice hints do NOT give the answers to the test questions.  And now looking back, I can see why the kids didn't like doing them.  It was because they weren't given the answers over there.  Basically, I was the idiot that trusted Khan Academy to make the homework practices just like the SAT practices.  That's what I'm mad at!  Here it is when I thought I was being nice letting them use their second try, when all along they were cheating getting the answers from the hints.  So, now I know, and knowing is half the battle.  I'm asking for Khan Academy to change their wording.  If they don't, that's fine.  I know now that from here on out, that their score is the score they see...period. 

So don't worry people!  I will no longer let them use their second tries because they can see the answers!  It just would have been nice to know that their version of HINT meant to see the answers!  Thanks!  I know that now!  Moving along...

Steps off soapbox.

Hi Allegra,

I see the misunderstanding now.

The SAT practice is set up with one hint, so that students who have already learned the material can use one hint to figure out the problem.  The courses are set up with enough hints that the student can eventually get the answer and learn.

If you set the same problems for every student, then the students see the same problems when they redo the assignment (that's what first and last attempt mean, not before and after a hint on the same time taking the quiz).  If you assign different problems for each student, then they get a new problem if they retake it.  I have a 4th grader who is determined to get 100% on almost everything; it typically takes over 20 questions before she starts to see some of the same questions again.  On the other hand, my kindergarteners sometimes get 2 identical problems in one exercise, due to the few problems possible (addition up to 5 has a finite number of unique problems).

It looks like the first lesson in Polynomials has 12 unique questions.  Most likely it would take 3 tries before most students started seeing repeated questions, but I don't guarantee that.  Especially in a large class, it could happen during the 2nd time taking doing the exercise, but that's only if you're assigning different answers to every student.

Ok, to see what the students see, without doing an exercise yourself:

Go to your teacher dashboard, pick the class, then go to assign.  Click to open a unit and click the lesson hyperlink.

The following screen will pop up:

Now, you want to click "student view" on the top right, and this will be what you see.

Click the "watch a video or use a hint" hyperlink, and you'll see the options:

The first recommendation is ALWAYS to view a video or read an article.  If they want a hint, there is a reminder that the question will be marked wrong.

Most students will only use the first hint.  A few will use the second.  Those who just want to cheat the system will go through to the fourth/last hint (other problems have different numbers of hints).

Those only apply if the student goes for the hints FIRST.

If they get it wrong, they see this:

They have the same progression of one hint at a time, ending with the final answer.  Please note that this only counts as one attempt, because it's only one time doing the exercise, quiz or test.

This is what I see:

I happen to know that my 4th grader did the Interpret Remainders exercise more than once (turned out it was three times).  She got more practice offline in between each, and since she had different problems assigned each time, she couldn't memorize the answers and input them on the same problem set.

You can access the same page by clicking view report in the Manage tab.

Please let me know if you have any other questions.  However, I would recommend that you do an exercise or two, to be familiar with the kids' side of things.

Gotcha!  Thanks!  

I'm happy to help.  As a homeschool teacher, sometimes I have free time to answer these questions before a public/private teacher can.  Other times, someone else gets to it first.

And sometimes, we're just misunderstanding each other, no matter what we do.

But the end goal is for everyone, teachers and students, to be on the same page.

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