Anyone else about ready to give up on Khan Academy?

Hi there, we're sorry you're so frustrated! We're here and listening, and we thank you for your patience. We're an incredibly small team serving millions of people, so it can be challenging for us to reach everyone's needs immediately.

Here's an article that explains how our Mastery Challenges work: http://khanacademy.desk.com/customer/portal/articles/1267933-practiced-mastery-what-is-the-learning-dashboard-system-

If students miss 2 problems from the same skill while doing Mastery Challenges, we bump them down because we don't think they've been able to retain their knowledge over time. They can quickly prove to us that they know it by doing 5 right in a row, however. We've found that many schools find our system of Mastery compelling because it's rigorous and shows if students are retaining their math skills, but if you don't find it to be useful in your classroom, then we encourage you to use the site in ways that are meaningful to you and your students. Perhaps this means that you'll only value 'practiced' in your class, or your students only need to spend a certain amount of time on specific skills instead of getting to any level of mastery. KA is a tool that can be used in many ways; we hope you'll be able to find us meaningful in your classroom.

I'll second what Maureen said. I just started as a volunteer today, and the number of unanswered questions is overwhelming. Policy questions are "above my pay grade", but, having worked through many of the math lessons, I understand your frustration when I have answered 4 tricky practice questions in a row, then blow the 5th because I made a silly error, or I failed to notice that the answer has to be rounded to the nearest tenth (so my answer was "too correct") or, worse yet, when I think my answer was correct, but it wasn't accepted.

When this happens, after I stop banging my head against the keyboard, I try to turn this into a "teachable moment". (I apologize in advance if that term just launched your head towards your keyboard.) Whenever I have an answer rejected, I figure I'm doomed to restart another sequence of 5 again anyway, so I start working my way through the hints. More often than not, I'll see that I really did make an error, and I can supply the correct answer without further hints. "Silly" errors, like hitting the wrong digit, or reversing a sign, are very annoying, but the penalty here, getting drilled on something I understand pretty well, is less severe than it would be on an SAT or grad record exam. I have become more careful about checking my answers, particularly as I get closer and closer to 5 in a row.

Sometimes, even if my answer is accepted, I look through the hints before continuing on, to see if their answer was simpler than mine. This has increased my understanding on many occasions. "Ah, that's a much better way to do it."

So please don't give up. Your students deserve all the good features the Academy has to offer. And there are many.

Maybe, after I complete my training as a new volunteer, I can look into having the grading programs anticipate some of the common errors, like failing to round the answer to the specified precision, and make the penalty less severe than outright rejection.

Thank you Maureen and John for an authoritative response. Again, while I would agree the 5 in a row rule is appropriate for basic computational skill problems, I think KA needs to look at allowing teachers to set options for defining success for courses at the Algebra 1 level and above.

Time is a factor for students- both in class and out of class. Making students redo 5 problems in a row because of an error of any sort on their fifth problem (which may or may not look anything at all like their first four) is not necessarily an effective use of their most limited resource- time. For problems with multiple answers that must be correct, it can take two minutes to do 1 problem- and if it takes 15 tries to get 5 in a row, that is a half hour of time just one one skill, and we would typically cover two or more per day in class. (I'm using KA for homework.)

It would also be nice to see a reporting feature that on one screen showed how many questions a student got correct on a topic so that teachers make up a rule like "get 5 in a row correct, or get a total of 9 correct", with easy verification for homework credit.

John, I too look at the hints after I do a problem to see if they show an alternate and better way that what I thought of. There are many parts of KA that I like, but I still think KA administration needs to get more input from teachers if their goal is to see this used in more schools.

Also, concerning the number of unanswered questions: the fact that you are getting so many questions should be a sign to KA administration that they are not putting out enough information in the first place about things that really matter.

I am beyond frustrated with the slow and inadequate response to problems with this site. The time and energy spent trying to figure out problems and issues including but not limited to the ones you mention, is beyond reason. My time is valuable both to me as well as my students. I cannot afford to waste any more of my time or time that could be used to plan for my students.

Sorry KA, but you better figure this out quick, you just lost another school and possibly an entire district!

Hi there B L,
Im not from KA nor am i a volunteer or a tutor at KA. However it has helped me enormously when i first heard about it in 2009. Back when it was just youtube on a website without(!) the exercises.
I find them very motivating as well but also vague on when its okay to use pen and paper or when just to see the answer immediately.
However your problem is the clock not KA, blame the person whoes idea it was to give children just ipads and computers to learn about things you should touch, throw and collect, be it cubes or apples doesn't matter.

And please do give up if you dont feel like it but give it another try when the kids start studying a curriculum of their own choosing.

Greetings from an Agricultural student from the Netherlands

Welcome John,

Your post was excellent. I was considering posting something very similar myself. I have used Khan Academy with students and seen the frustration of missing out on getting to practiced by missing that last question! What I've found helps is letting them know I understand and I've been there! I explain that teachable moment and what it's taught me - to be careful and take my time and make sure I'm right before I submit my answer. This is a lesson I needed and a lesson many of my students need.

Would I make 5 right in a row a stricter criteria for lower grades than upper grades? Not a chance! I would rather my students struggle with 200 problems (getting to the right answer every time) and finally get 5 right in a row without help and then master it on multiple Mastery Challenges than see a student take home homework and get 5 or 10 problems wrong and have no idea why they got it wrong. Yes, some problems are harder and take more time, but as students get older, we expect more time to be taken. Consider in college you are expected to spend 2 hours on homework/student each week for each credit in a course. So a 5 hour Calculus course you should be expecting to spend at least 10 hours a week outside of class.

My biggest success story is from a student I was given last year. I was told that Mom wanted him to finish the entire Algebra textbook in 1 year (a school for students with disabilities which has never done this even for higher level students). Three months into the year I started working with him using Khan Academy. He mastered most of the Algebra I content in the 6 months we worked together. When I gave him a paper exam on skills he had Mastered on Khan Academy, I looked it over and handed it back saying he Aced it. These included questions he had previously missed. He got it! Yes, he had times he struggled and complained and threw mini-hissy fits, but he GOT it! That extra practice pays off!

So, B L, in answer to your question, no, I'm not giving up on Khan Academy.

I couldn't be happier with Khan Academy. It is super powerful and free. I have taught for 10 years. I love it. Use it every day.

I even setup an indefinite $10 per month donation. I love khan academy. Keep up the great work.

Robert - Calculus and Algebra teacher in Mississippi.

My youngest son has been using Khan Academy together with Beestar since last year. His math skill is growing fast. Based on our experience, the two home learning sites work well together.
Beestar's math program is completely free. My son likes to work on its weekly practice. The representative questions cover almost all math knowledge that he's supposed to learn at school. Whenever he encounters an unfamiliar math concept, he would search it on Khan Academy and watch its video lessons. In this way, he can fully graspe every math skill. At the same time, Beestar's reward system keeps him motivated. He likes to compete with others from nationwide and get on the honor roll. He becomes very confident in math in less than a year. I have to say Beestar and Khan Academy are excellent resources that work wonders for us.

@B L and @T Lancy I agree with using both KA and Beestar. With my students and daughter I have used a variety of supplemental websites/workbooks to stay on top of the math and reading skills in preparation for Common Core standards. I think both sites have their pros and cons, KA is definitely informative when it comes to learning and refreshing on specific topics. I would definitely recommend using it as a learning tool. As for having to go down a level with KA that is already achieved is discouraging. So far I haven't run into any issues with Beestar on having to go back a level, I can only imagine how frustrated my students and daughter would be to go back a level. I'm not sure how KA judges which level you should be at but for a good confidence boost and seeing names on the honor roll, definitely go with Beestar to learn and feel accomplished.

From what I've experience, it does drop them down one level.

I have a problem the Geometry mastery tests. When I reach a cross section question, and I get it right, the problem acknowledges I was correct, but when I click on go to next question it calls for a refresh, and the next question is also a cross section question, and I have not gained any ground by getting the prior question correct. There is a glitch / loop here.

KA is a great resource depending on what you are looking for and how you are using the resource. I have to agree with T Lancy in regards to this website called Beestar. Another great resource and they also have incorporated a section for studying SATs called Highschool Beestar. A great system them helps students learn new skills for the new SAT from the bottom up. Beestar sends weekly reminders to keep students on top of their game and also helps students learn the concepts vs just the usually trick cramming that most preparation centers provide.

I'm not even using it for Calculus and I'm just a fed up.  At first I thought "Great, I can recommend exercises to the and basically "assign" them a homework where they have to get 10 in a row correct".  Being at the Alg. 1 level, some still need that arithmetic practice.  Except that when I started to check the skills page to see which students completed the assignment, several students were claiming that they completed the assignment and some even took to taking screenshots to show me that they got it done.

I used the website the same last year with no problems.  If the issue of a student doing their assignment and it not showing up on my end, chances are it was because a student wasn't logged in.  If that wasn't it, it was because the student made a new account (because they forgot their old password) and didn't add me as a coach.

I have NEVER had this much of a headache with this program and I am ready to throw in the towel also.  It's unfortunate because this is the best way I’ve found to ensure my students are practicing math correctly….when it works.  I’m also really frustrated that a website offering so much to so many doesn’t have a bigger support staff.  ESPECIALLY if you are marketing to teachers to use in their classroom.  If a school district’s IT department (essentially our support staff for technical issues) was comprised of volunteers, there would probably be a boycott of technology.  Sending me an email apologizing for the fact that my concern probably won’t be addressed because there is basically no “help center” sends the message that my concern is not very important to you and your program. 

Hello @Mpereira! My name is Lisa Krueger and I am a Khan Academy Ambassador teaching in Chicago. I am sorry to hear that you are frustrated with KA. As KA is a non-profit organization providing free math & programming exercises to students of all ages they do not have a full time staff dedicated to monitoring the user feedback, but they know they need one; so they trained KA Ambassadors to monitor the site. Ambassadors are teachers from a variety of grades, school settings, and experience using KA in their classrooms. Ambassadors monitor the Teacher & Coach Support Community fielding posts, suggestions, questions, and comments we are able to answer and referring those we can not to the KA developers to improve the site. I use KA in grades 3 - 8 and last year I had a number of students that created new accounts or worked under someone else's account; unfortunately the only solution I found was walking around the classroom as the students were using the site. I'm not sure what grade level you teach but maybe implementing incentives will ensure students log on as themselves with the correct accounts. I use things like beat the teacher, student with top # mastered skills, student with most videos watched, etc. Hopefully this helps. Please know we are here and we are listening. Thank you for posting. 

I agree with you completely.

I am a Freshman in a Sophomore math class and my teacher requires us to master certain skills that we are working on which goes towards our grade. After practicing all of the skills in the topic we are working on, Khan Academy refuses to give me a mastery challenge on the topics.

Instead, they choose to ONLY give me mastery challenges on topics I had gone over last semester and I have not worked on them for almost a year.

Khan Academy needs to get this together because my grade will suffer because of this.

I am very disappointed, and Khan needs to get their act together.

@Mpereira       I know this response is a little late.  I have found Khan to be very helpful in improving my students' understanding of math concepts.  The biggest issue for me has been the frustration students feel when they don't get their 5 in a row (especially when they miss the 5th).  The disappointment causes many to want to give up.  For those with persistence,  it works great though because they are driven to get that 5 in a row.

As for the technical issues you seem to be experiencing, the first thing to check is that when they do Khan Academy they are signed into the correct account.  Sometimes they don't sign in at all or they forget their password and create a new account thinking it doesn't matter.  My students usually just forget.

Second, there are cheats that students look up on YouTube.  So far, I have been able to link suspicious activity (such as completing a set but it doesn't show as progress) to various cheat methods.  I do have one student right now showing a pattern that indicates a lack of integrity and haven't figured it out.  One way to see that is to ask for a screen shot of the points page, if a cheat was used, there's often 0 points earned.  That's a tip-off.  "Yeah, but for some reason..." That's the first indication.  In the end, though, making it clear to students that cheating only hurts them in the long run is the best preventative method. 

Also, always refresh your reports page.  Sometimes an old page is cached or something because when I refresh it'll update progress.

I find KA to work pretty flawlessly.  There are some things I wish they'd fix (allow access to mastery challenge reports, I have students screen shot them, but there has to be an easier way). Offer a larger pool of problems that are access randomly.  Allow teachers to customize lists (for remediation). 

@geoffbarrett I definitely always ask them if they were signed first.  In the past, that has been the main problem.  I have even had a student show me a screen shot with the purple bar that says "You are not signed in".  Sometimes they don't pay attention when they are working on the class computers and don't realize they are signed into whoever used the computer before them.  If this was the only issue, I would be fine with it.

I find the cheating stuff you are talking about interesting.  I had two students last week show me their points page with 0 points for completing the assignment should I couldn't figure out.  I just told them they had to redo it.

My main issue with using Khan is that they are an established company, they have been around for a while, they ask for money every year during Black Friday/Cyber Money/ Donate Tuesday or whatever that is.  Hire some tech support.  Even if they only work a few days a week, at least I know that when I submit a problem it will get a response from someone that knows the system behind Khan.  Not a response from some "Ambassador" that doesn't get what my concern is.  

Sorry @LisaKrueger, I appreciate the response but my concern is not with how to get my high school students to focus for more than 2 minutes to make sure they are signed in properly, my concern is with why their work is not translating to my side of things after they have signed in, added me as a coach, etc.  I think I would need a developer to answer that, not a fellow teacher (unless you have been through a similar issue, like students cheating, and figure out a solution).

@Geoff - glad KA is working out for you so well!  Thanks for taking the time to post here :)

@Ms. Pereira - I want to respond directly to your support concerns.  I took a look at your support profile at KA, and first I wanted to say I'm very sorry for the lack of response that you experienced when you last submitted a support ticket.  In the last few months we've been systematically improving our support capabilities behind the scenes, so that everyone who writes in gets a timely response, but it looks like you last contacted us before that was fully implemented.  I've gone ahead and created a support ticket on your behalf regarding the issue you're describing, and someone from the team should be in touch shortly to discuss it further.

I also want to recognize the incredible and unique importance that Ambassador volunteers such as Lisa have had in enabling us to move to this system. While our in-house support team is trained to help with bug-reporting, account issues, and general site help, they're not current teachers using Khan Academy in the classroom. We recognize that having active teachers to contribute in this Ambassador role brings unique perspectives, tips, and insight that only educators can provide. Our teacher Ambassadors volunteer their time to bridge this gap and help ensure that their peers in the classroom are able to get the most out of KA.

All this is to say, I'm sorry we haven't met your support expectations in the past - but we're working to change that, and our teacher ambassadors are a big part of the effort.  Stay tuned for a support email coming your way :)

and why does it have a countdown till you can reach another level. i am about to quit as well

Yes

YES My son used Saxon Algebra 1 (by book) the first half of the year & then it got really hard & another home schooling parent suggested Khan Academy where after hours and hours and weeks it tells us he has made 5% progress in 8th grade math but we have no way of knowing where the start was or where the end is and NO ONE WILL CALL ME. They just email me a 'so sorry you don't get it email & suggest another Khan URL I can go to. Today I told my poor son it was not his fault or mine but that this KHAN site was actually just a CON and he was going to need to go back to Saxon and simply do the best he can. A beginning, middle and end Khan does not know about, just bells, whistles, and rah rah.  You are correct NO ONE AT KA IS LISTENING. Do as we are today dumping this before my poor son ends up staying back in the 8th grade for another year. Shame on KA>  

@Sally - the only support correspondence I see from you is from yesterday, and an agent responded at length to you 5 hours after you submitted it, with explanations about how progress is tracked and some tips on monitoring it as a parent.  I'm not sure what communication you might be referring to ("They just email me a 'so sorry you don't get it email & suggest another Khan URL I can go to."), but please continue to work with that agent if there are additional questions you have, and our team will do our best to help you through any trouble you might be having.